reChurch Podcast
Welcome to the reChurch Podcast, hosted by Justin and Brooke Knoop.
As we speak, there is a massive number of people leaving the institutional Church...but interestingly, they aren’t walking away from Jesus. Many of us have noticed a significant gap between what we see in the Bible and what we experience on Sunday mornings. Let’s talk about it.
reChurch Podcast
How To Raise Kid's That ACTUALLY Follow Jesus | #reChurch Ep. 06
Have you ever wondered why so many kids who "grew up" in the Church choose to walk away from it after they turn 18?
Do you want to raise kids who actually follow Jesus and continue to do so for the rest of their lives?
Do you want to know how to leave a legacy of faith to pass down to your children and grandchildren?
Then this episode of the reChurch Podcast is for you!! Enjoy!
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It's your responsibility to plant seeds and water your children. It is not your responsibility to make them grow. You obey Christ the best that you can by His ability to train them up in the way that they should go, and you leave that spiritual growth in the job of the Holy Spirit. You leave that up to Him. That's right.
Speaker 2:When you make a mistake. That's where grace comes in. Grace is not there so that you can live in a mistake. Grace is there so when you make a mistake, you can dust yourself off and actually do better the next time. And at first I was like not understanding. And then, as he discussed where he was coming from and I just sat and listened, we were silent for about 30 minutes because I had to process. And then I realized like he's right. And as soon as I realized he was right, I had to apologize in front of my kids because we were in a car together for an hour.
Speaker 1:And so I had to apologize. If you need any motivation or vision, like when I read that verse, I'm like that's all I want to hear from people that know my future generations or people that knew of us are like you know what, like we've heard of your parents' faith and now we see that living in you.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the ReChurch podcast. If you are tired of business as usual Christianity and ready to follow Jesus just like it tells us to in the Bible, he tells us to in the Bible, then you found yourself in the right place. I'm your host, justin Knoop, and I'm here with my lovely wife, brooke Noop, again.
Speaker 2:Again. How are you? Yes, are you tired of me yet?
Speaker 1:Not, no, no chance. I mean we're coming up on 16 years. I think, dude, it's getting pretty serious.
Speaker 2:That's wild Tell them about Facebook.
Speaker 1:Today got a notification that said uh, you know when you it's your friend-iversary, uh-huh, that was called friend-iversary. Yeah, we became friends on facebook 17 years ago today. That's pretty cool. That is cool. Were we ever friends on myspace? Or did myspace have friends yeah or is it just like your top eight?
Speaker 2:no, I think you had friends, but it wasn't called friends. Maybe I can't remember. That's been a minute.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wasn't on your topic I remember thinking like how could there be anything else like myspace? Is so cool. Nothing could take it over and it died it died quick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, facebook took over they did, yeah, but anyway, we had a pretty amazing episode last week, so if you haven't seen that, I would highly recommend yeah, going to see episode five, because we talked about the heart of why we're doing this podcast and what our, what we feel like at this point, our life messages to people and what we want to spend our life doing teaching, preaching, walking people through you know, can you get people. Do you think you can give people a brief overview, cause it might be a big task? Yeah, I don't think I can do it, you're better at that, it might be a big task.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think I can do it. You're better at that. I'll talk too much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Basically we. You know. I felt like the Lord told me to give people the real us in the story behind why we stepped out of church as an institution. Right, the title of the episode was that we believe church should go out of business. Oh, my goodness, what did?
Speaker 1:you just say, yeah, so offensive. But I think once we got through, if you watch that episode through to the end, you would agree with us that the business aspect of church needs to die. The institution known as church needs to die. The body of Christ known as church needs to live and thrive of christ, known as church, needs to live, yeah, and thrive. And I think some walls got to come crashing down so that we could effectively do that. So that was the heartbeat. But, uh, behind the last episode, but towards the end of the episode, you had mentioned a few things and I think that led us into this, this discussion now, because there are some practical things that people probably start asking themselves when they say, well, if I'm having this revelation and understanding that the system itself is unbiblical and I need to get out of it, or step away from it, or whatever that looks like for you.
Speaker 1:It's one thing for you, but what does that look like for my family? What does that look like for my children? Are they going to be? Okay? They're not going to have youth group.
Speaker 2:They're not going to have youth group right.
Speaker 1:What are we going to do? And I think that becomes a scary question for people that weren't taught Like well. My first question is what'd they do in the first century?
Speaker 2:They didn't have a youth group in the first century. This is true.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I'm saying, but I think it becomes a scary question for a society and a culture the Western church that has built a system where you don't disciple your kids. You let an institution disciple your kids. We talked a lot in the last episode about the institution of school, like the public school system, and how that came about, and it used to be that kids were educated in the home right.
Speaker 1:It was more experientially based, and then it got moved to an institution, and then we complain about how they come out, but we're not actually willing to school them ourselves or educate themselves. I think this, I think it's literally the same pattern, because I think it's the. It's the enemy If I'm not stepping on any toes, it's the enemy who builds those systems in order to counterfeits. It's a counterfeit system. It's a. It's a system built with an agenda to create a product.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like the whole idea of like incubating a baby outside of a womb but in an incubator. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Incubator. I might've said that wrong with the Southern twain incubator. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm country. I'm sorry, this is what it is Um, but yeah, it's kind of like artificial insemination almost you know that's kind of what it has become or what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree, and so that's what we want to talk about today. We want to talk about what it looks like not only to disciple your children, like really disciple them and teach them to actually live like Jesus, but we also want to answer question like how do you do it in such a way where you could almost guarantee that they don't walk away from their faith or they don't leave the faith when they get older and they get out of the home right, because there's gonna come a day where your kids are gonna grow up and they're gonna go start their own families.
Speaker 1:naturally and I think that's most of us as parents as they get older, we start to think about that day. Are they going to follow Jesus because of what we've done, the environment we've created, or are they just going to get on their own and be like that was whack, but I'm going to do my own thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm saying for sure.
Speaker 1:And so what do you think, first of all? Why do you think, first of all, why don't you think, that the biblical prescription, or what Jesus would want, is like stick your kids in Sunday school or stick them in a youth group. Why is that not? Or do you think it's biblical?
Speaker 2:I don't think it's biblical.
Speaker 1:Okay, you don't see it anywhere in scripture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's unhealthy because, again, it's an artificial situation. Where in life are you in the same room with people your same exact ages, going through the same exact things, where you kind of feed off of each other's maybe negative energy towards one another Because you're both 13 and awkward and don't want to talk? I don't think it's a natural environment where children learn the best, because they're so insecure around their friends that they actually can't engage because they're too worried about themselves. But where are children the most vulnerable, the most likely to learn? If you're a toxic parent, you're not the place. But if you're actually a godly parent who loves the Lord and is creating an atmosphere in your home that is safe environment, to where they can actually be themselves, they're going to ask hard questions. And not only are they going to ask hard questions and be themselves, they're going to really trust the answers because they see you walking in righteousness to the best of your ability. So I think that's where they're going to learn the most.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you made me think when you kept saying artificial environment. And it's not that there's no use for artificial environments anywhere in the world. There's actually a good use for them. So you think about the incubator example that's there for a preterm baby.
Speaker 2:You need them but how much work is a preterm baby?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Extremely difficult, like I've been with a friend who had a preterm child and it was very hard, and it was even harder once they went home with that preterm baby. There was other issues going on, and so I think when we have those, yes, it's necessary for certain situations and it can be good, but it's not the ideal for anyone.
Speaker 1:But we've made it the norm, that's right. Right, and so I would agree with you. Not only is it not in scripture, obviously it's something that we've taken as a substitute, or we've created a substitute, a replacement, a replacement out of something that should only exist in certain situations in emergency situations.
Speaker 2:Right For sure.
Speaker 1:So some people would say, well, it's better than nothing, like it's better for a person that doesn't have that or doesn't have that option at home but it's not the ideal, and we've made it the ideal. That's right, and so the ideal would be discipling your children in your home, sure.
Speaker 2:So what does? That how do you do that? You first have to become a true disciple yourself.
Speaker 1:That's true. So if you give me a snapshot of what, uh, give me. Let me know the difference between a kingdom centered family and a Christian family.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So a Christian family is a family who? They go to church on Sundays, maybe even Wednesdays, maybe even Sunday nights Cause I know some old school churches do that and they go to church and maybe they talk about God a little bit, but when push comes to shove and real life situations come about, you don't handle them Christlike. So you can say, yeah, kids, I love Jesus. But then let's say you own a business and some dude screws you over and you cuss that guy out. Or let's say you claim Jesus but you are the coach on a football team and you lose your game and you're over there pitching a fit, kicking and screaming and cussing at the referees or things like that. Being a Christian family just means I go to church on Sunday but I get to live however I want, any other time I want, and I can pitch fits when I want to and I can get mad at my wife when I want to and I can be stingy, or my wife can, your wife can be a nagger and all these things. And your children just see, they see hypocrisy.
Speaker 2:I remember when I was 16, that's what I said. I'm like, if Jesus looks like anything I've been shown like, he's a fake and I want nothing to do with him because I saw, you know, people that went to church and served and did all the things. But when I got home, you know, my stepdad was smoking and sexually abusing me but he was the leader of the Awanas program and he was abusing me and he was cheating on my mom and he was drinking alcohol and all these things and drunkenness and I'm just like what is happening. You cannot expect your children to follow Jesus if you yourself are not true sold out disciples of Christ, where money doesn't own you, where alcohol doesn't own you, where the culture of this world doesn't own you, where you actually are truly set apart. Because, I'm telling you, children can smell fake from a mile away more than you realize.
Speaker 1:You know it's interesting. You said that you talked about people that abuse and we didn't get deep into this last time, but in the last episode it could have. We could have gone longer and talked about this but people that abuse positions of power.
Speaker 1:Now, the problem is that we've created those positions in the church where Jesus did not want them. He did not. He very specifically disarmed and disabled the hierarchical system of the Old Testament and then even in Matthew's gospel, he tells them specifically, when speaking of the Pharisees, he's talking to his disciples in a group of people. He's like don't be like them. Not only don't be like them, don't use titles. That's right To put yourselves in positions of power. And people will argue be like. Well, there's all these titles listed in scripture. And I would argue well, there's functions listed in scripture, right, People are empowered by the Holy spirit to function in a certain way. But if you notice, they're all character based, right, and we still take those and we're like those are just qualifications for positions. No, they're not.
Speaker 1:No they're not. Those are qualifications, character qualifications for a, for somebody functioning in your life that way. So this is the qualifications that you look for when you want somebody to lead you. That's right, right, and then you'll, as a leader, you follow their lead, right. There's nothing about them having authority over you or spiritual authority over you or anything like that. These are people that are qualified to lead you and so you don't need the positions, you don't need any of those things, because all they do is allow false, corrupt people to fill those positions.
Speaker 1:And then people mistakenly think that because a person's in that position, they have authority over me. I've got to do what they say, or I've got to lead their example, and it and it keeps coming out year after year, that these people who everybody thought were fantastic are corrupt, right, and they're abusing that system of power. And we're like, well, these are just bad people, keep the positions. And I'm like, yeah, keep the positions. And I'm like, yeah, keep the positions. If Jesus taught that, but he didn't. You know what I'm saying, and so that's what you know. It just made me think about that whole system of what we talked about before the system coming down, the system coming out and just allowing people to. You know, we have functions and roles as mother and father, but we don't fill a position Like think about how weird that is.
Speaker 2:That is strange.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I'm saying? If, if we utilize that in the family, and I think the reason Jesus, uh, the reason why we don't have positions quote unquote in the family or things like that, like Jesus didn't teach, that is because, if you'll notice, relationships change, your relationship to different people change. So, for example, in a family, uh, the relationship between a mother and a father and a toddler is very different than a mother and a father and a 12 year old, very different from a mother and a father and a 16 year old, and really different from a mother and a father and a 45 year old.
Speaker 1:Right, You're always mom and dad right. But you don't have the same relationship and influence.
Speaker 2:Right At each one of those ages. That's right and it should.
Speaker 1:And I think that's why, ultimately and this isn't a podcast or this isn't an episode on authority or spiritual authority but I think that's why Jesus very specifically says, he says himself this is Jesus talking. He says all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. That's right, right and therefore you go. So the authority, if you walk in any type of authority, it's because you're walking in Christ.
Speaker 2:That's right and the word yeah.
Speaker 1:So if you speak to somebody and you're speaking into their life, and it's scriptural, and it's the word of God, it holds authority. It holds authority.
Speaker 2:It holds authority Not because of you and not because of your voice, your who you are, your last name, your title, your degree. But you have authority because you're speaking the word of God and you're speaking from Christ, his words. That's where the authority comes from. But the authority is in Christ because it says in the word he's been given all authority, not he's been given all authority. And then you get a little bit of authority. You get a little bit of authority, he's been given all authority. So anything you do in the name of Jesus that lines up with the word of God and it comes through the spirit of God will give you that authority in that moment. But as soon as you stop talking in the word of God or in this, in the spirit of God, all of a sudden you can say something and it's like because there's no authority in you, in in of yourself because of who you are.
Speaker 1:You said that because the proof of that is that you do it in the name of Jesus.
Speaker 2:You have authority. In the name of Jesus.
Speaker 1:And so that doesn't mean you have authority, because you're saying the name of Jesus, like you're like you're like it's an incantation or something like that.
Speaker 1:It means that the authority rests in him that's right that's why the the, the seven sons of skeeva were trying to cast out demons, but they got the authority ran out naked right, exactly, exactly because they didn't have it so a lot of people think like, oh, I've got this inherent authority, right has been given to me, like it's mine now and I stick in my pocket and I'm like bro, like jesus says if you.
Speaker 1:If you he even says if you don't even abide in him like you're, if you're disconnected from him, you will bear no fruit. Yeah, you have to. Everything that you have is in christ, so if your life is hidden in him, you have access to what he has. That's right. It is not yours inherently.
Speaker 2:Well, I think I want to go back to what we were talking about a minute ago, like the difference between a Christian family and a kingdom family. We gave that example of a Christian family. It's like you go to church, you might have a Bible in your house but it's got dust on it, or maybe you do read it every day but you're not actually living and renewing your mind in it and living that way. But I think going to the kingdom family is when Jesus becomes Lord of mom and dad's life. He is Lord and he directs every thought, every word, every decision, every idea, even down to your career, to your life, to your choices, to your character, to your morals, to your belief system, so where he literally infiltrates every space of your being.
Speaker 2:I've heard this analogy given at church, where to put Jesus to give yourself. It's kind of like how do you set up your life in a system you got the top shelf is Jesus and then everything comes in the shelf and I'm like, no, that means that the Jesus shelf is closed because or the Jesus drawer is closed because I can't get in the second drawer because that door is open like you gotta shut it off somewhere. No, it should be. Jesus is the center and everything comes out of that place. So everything is an offshoot of Jesus career, family, social group activities, hobbies, life, discipleship all the things is centered in Christ Jesus. It's just offshoots of Christ, not Jesus family, because you're leaving him out somewhere. He's not in a drawer. So I think it's actually not really good analogy, Biblically speaking.
Speaker 1:that's why Christ is the head of the church.
Speaker 2:He's not the arm.
Speaker 1:Because you can live with an arm cut off. Cut your head off. How are you going to be?
Speaker 2:doing, you're done. You're done for Right. So I think that a kingdom family is somebody who the parents truly have made Jesus Lord and they're actually obeying the word of God and they handle every situation as biblically and as Christ-centered and as spirit-filled as possible biblically and as Christ-centered and as spirit-filled as possible. Jesus isn't sprinkled on areas, but he actually infiltrates every bit of every area in their life. So the way you handle conflict in your home, the way you handle and speak, the way you don't gossip about people X, y and Z, the way you serve one another, the way that the father lays his life down for his wife and the sons and the children see that and the daughters see that. I'll even use a real life example in real time.
Speaker 2:Like Justin, I got into an argument yesterday and he was correcting me on something and at first I was like not understanding and then, as he discussed where he was coming from and I just sat and listened, we were silent for about 30 minutes because I had to process and then I realized, like he's right, and as soon as I realized he was right, I had to apologize in front of my kids because we were in a car together for an hour and so I had to apologize and I said, hey, I'm really sorry. Like I realized where you're coming from, you're right, and I apologize, and now I will never do that again. And then we continued on his life as normal, like Justin had every right to cold shoulder me all night long. I had every right to be prideful and not repent and say I'm sorry, and all of those things in our third son, who's almost 11. His name's Judah.
Speaker 2:We came in after all of that in the car, we come in, we're having dinner and he was like you know, one thing I love about you guys, he's like y'all get over things so quick and y'all just y'all just love each other. Well, even after like a hard conversation like that, and I was like thanks, buddy, like that was really encouraging, like I still didn't feel good in the moment, because correction hurts for a minute, um, but it still was really, really good that they see that, mom and dad, there was no screaming, there was no yelling, there was no cursing, there was no name calling. But was it a heavy discussion? Absolutely Were there some emotions involved?
Speaker 2:For sure, but we repented quickly, we made it right and we continued on our evening and we actually were good and we woke up happy, justin's loving on me and all the things. I would have maybe been still a little annoyed if it was me, but I'm growing and he's farther along, but I just I looked at that and when I saw my son say something like, I'm like, okay, we're doing something right Because they are watching you and they can see real from fake in a second.
Speaker 1:You think a lot of parents think that they're like hiding it from them. Oh we argue in the other room, or we do that and it's like they know what's going on. They can feel it, they see it, they feel it, but it's what is their response to it? So, again, what you're saying is a kingdom, a kingdom family is not a perfect family.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no. But I want to break this down real quick, because kingdom is it's a compound word, that's right the king's domain, that's right. What's the king's domain? It means that in the kingdom, the king has rule that's right over that area. That's right. And so that's our life. So in our home, jesus has full authority. That's right.
Speaker 2:Jesus is the one that we, and he makes our decisions for us and the way we do everything um, down to where our kids play sports and where our kids go to school, and what we eat. Down to how we live and how we steward our bodies, down to how much sleep we get at night, down to everything we do Like we do it to glorify God. So we ask him God, what, what is this season of my life look like, and how do you want me to do it? Down to how long I even pray, like the Lord just challenged you recently. I want you to pray for this specific thing for 30 minutes for the next 30 days.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Did you compromise? No, Right you made it happen, right, because he's Lord, yeah, and you do what the Lord says, yeah, so yeah, no, that's good.
Speaker 1:And again, that doesn't mean we in Grace, is not?
Speaker 2:there, so that you can live in a mistake. Grace is there, so when you make a mistake you can dust yourself off and actually do better the next time. Oh yeah, For sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's an empowerment, that's right.
Speaker 2:To actually live in what God has called you to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is so misunderstood. Grace is so misunderstood a lot of times because people abuse it.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:God knows that he's not like thrown off, that people abuse that, but he's like. He's brokenhearted because he knows, if you would use it how it's meant to be used, that it would empower you, not give you a reason to stay the same. That's right, and that's what it is ultimately when you trample grace is you're using it as a crutch to remain unchanged. That's what it is ultimately when you trample grace is you're you're using it as a crutch to to to remain unchanged.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:And he's like you're not, you're not living to your fullest extent. Okay, Not expecting a perfection and no mistakes, I'm just expecting a person that is quick as quick to turn. That's right. Quick to change.
Speaker 2:I even think, too, about raising godly children. Sorry, I keep going back to that because little nuggets are popping in my mind. But even down to social media apps and things like that for families who have kids that are old enough for those. I remember for our 13-year-old he really wanted to get B-Rail at 12, but the age was 13. And he's like, well, mom, I just don't have to put my proper birth date in. And I'm like, well, mom, I just don't have to put my proper birth date in. And I'm like, dude, like you're not going to lie, you know what I'm saying. You're going to be honest.
Speaker 2:Even down to those small decisions, like we just choose to make the right choice and make the upstanding decision, because we know God honors good character and righteousness down to you know, when the Bible says, make disciples, we're making disciples of them and we're showing them and demonstrating making disciples with other people.
Speaker 2:When God says, you know, forgive quickly, like they see in our home, where we have to forgive one another quickly or others that have hurt our feelings, they see the process of us forgiving them.
Speaker 2:All of these things are things that create kingdom children to the point where now, when my kids go out, we have a 16-year-old and a 13-year-old, and my 16-year-old and 13-year-old have the freedom to go out and about and do some things with friends where their parents are calling them and they're like, hey, your kids are the real deal, they're the real deal. I can just tell by the way they talk about Jesus. They're the real deal. And they see the real deal at home. And so yeah, they're. They're making good choices and decisions because they've been taught the why not? You just do this because you have to. They know why they're doing what they're doing. They know why we follow Jesus and they also know that the other side's not so pretty, you know, cause they've seen the real, the bad and the ugly on the other side from family members and just even from our choices before we met Jesus while having younger children.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I see the difference. I think, being very open with your kids and involving them in what you would call ministry and stuff like that, and having discussions, not giving away people's information, but teaching them practically like this is this is what happens when you make this choice. This is what happened when mommy and daddy make this choice. And we're real. If you've made it to this point in the podcast and don't realize that we believe in the gifts of the spirit, we believe in healing and deliverance and casting out demons and things like that.
Speaker 1:Sorry to surprise you or shock you, but we do and our kids have witnessed that and people think like, how could you let your kids see that that? And people think like, how could you let your kids see that? And I'm thinking right now it's Halloween season, quote unquote and I'm walking around my neighborhood seeing the most demonic crap.
Speaker 2:Scary stuff that makes you have a pit in your stomach that you involve your kids in, so you'll let them watch scary movies Go to the woods of terror.
Speaker 1:We got people from the church posting on Facebook. I'm watching them and they're asking questions about oh, where is the Hollywood horror fest forest?
Speaker 2:whatever.
Speaker 1:And then giving me a hard time because I'm showing my kids how to cast demons out.
Speaker 2:I'm sending demons to hell. That's right.
Speaker 1:I'm like you are glorifying the kingdom of darkness, right? I have realized that when you hide that from them, kids are more scared of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because anything in Hollywood or any of those things, those celebratory ways of celebrating those instances, of celebrating the kingdom of darkness, they actually glorify darkness. Talking about casting out demons doesn't glorify darkness. It glorifies God by showing his power over darkness.
Speaker 2:And where did Jesus cast demons out? In the public square.
Speaker 1:Yeah, was he like hide your kids, hide your wife?
Speaker 2:No, he didn't say oh, we're going to go into the secret room back here where it's just us three elders of the church and we're going to cast out these demons. No, he was doing it in the streets and in the cities and in the gatherings and the churches and the meetings. He cast his first demon. There was some Jewish babies in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you want to know how to train your child up in the way that they should go, and when they are older, they will not depart. Actions speak louder than words.
Speaker 2:And I'm telling you, if you give your children a fairy tale Jesus, they will live like he is a fairy tale Jesus. They will have him on his back shelf like elf on the shelf at Christmas. They'll go to him when they have a hard day because it might bring him a little bit of joy and they get a present under the tree. You know, but if you give them the fairy tale Jesus, who does not have authority over darkness, who does not set you free from sin, who does not have any power and authority in the body of Christ I mean in the body of Christ or the world at large to actually do what he did and demonstrated you're going to have children who treat Jesus like the elf on the shelf he's a fairy tale or like Santa Claus.
Speaker 2:You know, he is a powerful Jesus who walks in great signs, wonders and miracles and he does still heal today and operate in those things. And if you hide that from your children and not give them the fullness of that, they will walk away from the faith. Because what is exciting about going to church every Sunday and never seeing God doing one single thing in your life or in the lives of those around you? They will be lukewarm children. You will have moral children, but not Holy Spirit led kingdom children, and that has been my prayer since I met. Jesus was Lord. I don't want just good, moral children who look like Christians. I want children that are willing to lay their knees on the sand and die for you and not deny your name. Those are the kids I want to have.
Speaker 1:And that takes true conviction which only comes through true surrender, and your kids are not. I'm sorry. They're not going to give their life for a fairy tale. They're not. So if you're teaching a fairy tale, jesus, and all they're getting is Bible storybooks at youth group and children's church, that's right.
Speaker 2:That's nothing Well what you'll end up having is you'll have young men who are riddled with lust but still go to church and walk in so much shame and condemnation that they can't even think straight and they're so shut down.
Speaker 2:Or you'll have young women who are dealing with identity crises and have eating disorders and being intimate with men and young boys outside of the home, behind closed doors, because that's where they're finding their validation, but from their body, because they have no true purpose and they haven't met a Jesus that really breaks true bondage of addictions and gives true purpose of identity, where you don't have to have some man tell you who you are and what you look like and how pretty you are, you know that was good or whatever you can actually truly know him, walk in freedom and walk in true identity.
Speaker 2:When you teach your children who the real Jesus is and it doesn't mean our kids are perfect and they've never had a moment of like hey, like I don't feel, like I have purpose in my life we just have to remind them of their purpose and show them and point them in the right direction and say, hey, right now maybe you've gotten distracted and football has been too much of your forefront and you didn't have a game this week, it's a bye week and you're feeling off because you feel like your identity is in football but really it's in Christ, and so we redirect them to that. You coach them, you teach them, you point them to Jesus, no matter what, showing them where their true validation comes from. It's not from situational things and sports and friends, but it's from Christ. It's not even from us, it's from Jesus, you know, and pointing them and training them in those directions. But if you yourself do not know Jesus and your kids come and ask you who Jesus is, they're going to see right through it.
Speaker 1:I was actually going to ask you that question because I want to get into talking about what discipleship looks like. We've already hit it pretty good, but what discipleship looks like practically in culture when you're raising kingdom centered kids and they're also it doesn't mean that they're immune from experiencing the the temptations of culture and stuff. We'll talk about that in a second. But you had mentioned you can't do this Like what we're explaining we could not do until we experienced it first. That's right Like share more about that.
Speaker 2:You mean our experiences.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, why should parents? Or maybe some examples about how parents brought their kids to us and they're like pray for my kid, pray for my kid you know what I'm saying like.
Speaker 2:I just feel like that's a good example, because parents want help for their kids yeah, and rightly so.
Speaker 1:They love their children, but they're forgetting about themselves. Yeah, they're all jacked up. That's so good. They can't help their kids.
Speaker 2:That's a really good point because I think we had. We do have parents come to us that have children that have some demonic things going on because of video games or whatever situation they're involved in. They'll come to me and say, hey, will you fix my kid? I first look at them and I'm like don't bring your kid to the first meeting. I need to talk to you because it comes from you. The issue is you.
Speaker 2:I have a friend who's a psychiatrist but she's a born-again believer who just got radically delivered. She's like what am I doing with my life? Like a lot of the things I'm psychology and talking about is actually demonic oppression in people's lives. And she's like and her specialty is with children, she works with children and she's like I never, when the parents come to me and say fix my kids, I tell the parents your kid's problem is you. You need to change and that will fix your child. So anytime parents bring their children to us and they're like, hey, our kids are in this situation, I always share the gospel with the parent first, to make sure they actually know Jesus, because the child is the secondary issue. You are the first problem. You must know Jesus and he must be Lord before you can do anything else. Yeah, so until that happens, like it's not, your child's not going to change, because they're just going to go back into the same tax environment that you've created in your home to cause them to have the problems that they have. So this.
Speaker 1:I don't know if this is off topic or not, but this blew my mind. When you know, when we minister to people over the last seven years or whatever, and we meet somebody, even if they're a friend brought them or they've been in church for so long we always preach the gospel to them make sure that they have a understanding of the gospel and that they've responded.
Speaker 2:And that they're truly born again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it blew my mind how many ministries that we've worked with stuff like that that they completely skip over that.
Speaker 2:It's like they start discipling people as if they're all born again.
Speaker 1:We just expect everybody has already responded properly to the gospel. They know what that means we're in America, everyone's already a Christian. Now let's just start from here.
Speaker 2:Phase three, when you skip one, two and three. You already skipped one and two. Yeah, the gospel and the response.
Speaker 1:And I feel like Paul was like that it's so funny. He comes across those disciples of John in Acts, chapter 19. And the first question is, like Paul's like hey, not hey, how you doing, how you been Like what's that he's like? Have you received the Holy Spirit? Well, he doesn't even say what denomination.
Speaker 2:Are you a part of he's like? No, have you received the Holy Ghost? Because he knew that meant they were truly born again. Yeah, and they're like we don't know what you're talking about. So you know what he did. He rebaptized them, yep, and then they received the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1:That's right, and so people will see that that's not Paul validating Pentecostalism.
Speaker 2:No, no, Like that's not saying. Like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:That's not an excuse for that.
Speaker 2:What that I'm going to check your foundations.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking that is to me one of the telltale signs of a true apostolic person is that they're foundation checkers. When they're coming up against an issue, the very first thing they're saying is have you responded to the gospel, the good news?
Speaker 2:Do you know what?
Speaker 1:it is Right Okay now that you know it, tell me about your-.
Speaker 2:How did you get born again? Tell me about how you got born again, right?
Speaker 1:And we have found that that one question.
Speaker 2:If somebody says to me I'm born again, or I'm a Christian because my mom took me to church, or my parents went to church, or my parents have a really strong faith, or, you know, I prayed the sinner's prayer at 12. I know from those statements immediately this person is truly not born again. They can't tell me about what it was like when they repented. They can't tell me about what happened when they were baptized. They can't tell me the last time or when they received the Holy Spirit or when things changed drastically in their life. All they can say is I've always been a.
Speaker 2:Christian.
Speaker 1:I've always been a Christian because my mom and dad I'm like you came out the womb born again. No, that's not true. John the Baptist is the only guy I know that got filled with the Holy Spirit, and so I don't think you're number two. But yeah, and that's not to condemn people, that's just to say it's very, very typical. So ask that question and you're not challenging people to make them feel bad or question their salvation.
Speaker 2:But even somebody challenged. Thank God you challenged me because I would still be in deception today. That's right. The reason we ask this question is because we really love people and we don't want people to go to hell or get to get to judgment day and find out like they really don't know Jesus.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing too. If like, can you imagine if you went to the doctor's office and they didn't let you talk and just diagnosed you and told you what you need? Right, that's what we do in church.
Speaker 2:That people come in by the droves and we just preach to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't know what they need. No.
Speaker 2:We don't know where anyone's at.
Speaker 1:So why would it, jesus? People came up to Jesus and they could have like they're blind, and he would still say what do you need from me? That's right, let that sink in, that's right. Everyone around him was probably like, seriously, jesus, the guy's blind, he needs to see, right? That's right. But he wanted to make sure that they understood, yeah, and he didn't just speculate. That's right, what do you need? Where are you at? There's a portion of scripture where the disciples are trying to cast a demon out of a boy who's epileptic and the father brings him to Jesus because the disciples cannot cast the demon out. Do you know what Jesus asked him? How long has this been happening? Do?
Speaker 2:you miss what Jesus asked him.
Speaker 1:How long has this been happening? Do you miss like? Do you miss things like that? I? Feel like we miss things like that in scripture, those details.
Speaker 2:He inquired.
Speaker 1:Why was he inquiring? Do you think he just threw that in there? Because he didn't? You know, and people just skip over stuff like that, but there are so many times that Jesus was asking very intentional questions because, um, because he wanted the person to understand what they actually needed. And I have found that in those questions and these are this can correlate to with kids and things like that, to where you could get.
Speaker 1:you could get down to really, really and I think this is what would grab their attention more than anything is, instead of just preaching at them or teaching them Bible stories, communicating with them and figuring out where they're at and what they're struggling with and then handling that. That's right. Let's talk about how the gospel applies to that. Let's talk about how the gospel sets you free from your identity issues and your insecurities. That's right, that's how you start. Jesus personalized the gospel with people and I think that's what really drew kids in.
Speaker 2:Now I think yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1:So what I wanted to say is in relation to that there is that is a lot easier to do one-on-one. Yeah for sure, okay. So that's why discipleship in the home is important. Now, every kid doesn't get that, so maybe there are times where they're taught in a large group. Now, having a large group of people is very beneficial for dispelling information.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's not to say that there's never a time for somebody to preach a message or teach a message from a stage for to a large group of people.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's not the best way to to pass on information.
Speaker 1:It's the best way to pass on information, but I heard this recently Christianity is not about spiritual information, it's about spiritual formation, right, and so there's a certain way. There's certain things you can do that are going to help one of those things versus the other. That's right, so we can't just be dispellers of spiritual information Listening to this podcast it's okay.
Speaker 2:So we can't just be dispellers of spiritual information Listening to this podcast. It's okay, we're dispelling information right, this is not discipleship, and there's a place and a time Right right, it has a purpose.
Speaker 1:But if I were to tell you hey, church, is you listening to this podcast? There is literally people that do online church and they just listen to sermons and think they've think that they're actually doing what jesus has called them to do by listening to an online sermon. Listen, if you are only listening to this podcast and that is your version, you have no relationship with other people.
Speaker 1:You're not reading your bible, you're not actually doing what jesus commanded you to do, then I'm highly sorry, that's not's not what you're you're, you're completely missing it. Um, but by and large, that's what we're teaching people is normal. And then we wonder why they, why they don't obey or they do that or whatever that's so good.
Speaker 1:But um, so, going into our second we'll, we'll talk about two. I've got two main things that I want to talk about left in this pot. This episode, well, I want to get into. Like, what does it look like? Practically, say, you're raising your kids in faith and in a kingdom centered family and you're also dealing with the pressures of culture.
Speaker 1:What's how do you practically navigate those things without making them, without the fear of of them feeling like they're boxed in, restricted, and the fear that they're going to rebel once they get out of the home Right?
Speaker 2:Well, you first need to make sure you're praying for them every single day. I pray for my kids every single day. I have specific things that I cover every single day, and so it starts with prayer and intercession for your children on a daily basis. And then I think going from that place is teaching them why they look different and why they can't always do what's going on, and teaching them the why. Like as a child I was told like here's this purity ring don't have sex till marriage.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I was like but why? So I didn't get the why. So you know what I did? I went to a friend at school and I asked them why. And they're like, oh yeah, sex is for when you really love someone and you feel really connected to them. And I'm like well, the first boyfriend I met, I loved him, you know. And so all of a sudden, like I'm giving myself away to this man because, or this boy because, I don't know any reason why, you know. So we talk about the why. We not just talk about the why, but we also talk about the consequences that come.
Speaker 2:God talked about consequences. If you look at the proverbs, he says a wise person receives an inheritance, the foolish person will not. So we talk about the, the rewards and the consequences of living in culture and living like the culture, or being set apart and being different from the culture. We also display that in our home, like we don't do things that as adults I have every right that I want to do. We've chosen not to drink, we do not watch certain shows and movies and things like that we show our kids even the standard is for me and if I wouldn't let you do it, I'm not going to do it as well. So we live it out that way as well. And I think, too, showing them that which the cool thing is is, every time my kids have to say no to something, god rewards them in such a beautiful way and I'm always so thankful for that because he shows them God's righteousness is worth it, you know. So trusting that God's going to actually show them how good this is and the blessing of God is going to come upon their lives and they've received that blessing. They see the blessing of God is going to come upon their lives and they've received that blessing. They see the blessing. So they're almost like, why is it worth it to go live like the culture, when I'm really blessed on this side of things? So I think, teaching them that and showing them that because they've had to say no to a lot of things that they thought was going to be a good decision and it turned out not being such a good decision, and so not that they chose the decision and it turned out not being such a good decision, and so not that they chose the decision, but they saw a situation go a certain way, but they chose the right direction and they actually, like are really thankful in the end.
Speaker 2:Like moving to Texas, necessarily not. My three older kids were like I'm not going and I'm like we will follow Jesus, you know. And I had to wrestle with the fact that, like I could lose my children by doing this, had to wrestle with the fact that, like I could lose my children by doing this, they could think I'm flipping crazy, be angry at me and rebel and resentful and unforgiving. They could do all of those things. But y'all, we covered our kids in prayer, we taught them the why, we told them that we're going to obey Jesus and trust that because of our obedience, it's going to be so good. And y'all, when we got to Texas two weeks in, we were sitting down in a restaurant and my kids were like mom, this was the Lord, this is God. And now they're saying I like Texas more than where I was because the favor of God and obedience to resting upon him.
Speaker 2:Now, it wasn't easy, like we had a few hiccups along the way to get here and they saw us go through that and they went through us with it. They went through it with us and they've experienced some losses, like my oldest son wants to play football for a high school so bad for a public high school. But he doesn't have that opportunity because the Lord said no like he has to play for a smaller league. He's not ready for that environment yet and we told him the why. He didn't like it at first but now he's like I love where I'm at. I'm so thankful. You know so it's. It's actually in real time, following the Holy Spirit and that the voice of the Spirit inside of you and he'll lead you and direct you and guide you and he'll bless your obedience and he'll bless your children and they'll see the blessing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's times you have to trust God.
Speaker 2:You have to trust the.
Speaker 1:Holy Spirit in making decisions, even when you're scared.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:That your kids are going to be mad at you or resentful for you know for doing it, or they're going to see that their friends get get more privileges or whatever as they see them, but it's like. It's kind of like that idea of the guardrails on the side of the road.
Speaker 2:That's right, they're not there to restrict you.
Speaker 1:They're there to protect you.
Speaker 2:And, I think, our kid we've done a really good job. And it's not because we're really good parents, it's really just like we depend on the Holy spirit for everything and like I'm like. Sometimes I'm like Lord help me, I don't know what I'm doing here, and he gives us these tools. Cause when we first moved here, my oldest son came to me. He's like hey, I have a friend who wants me to go do something. We don't know this kid, we've never met him. He's driving to another town, like we just moved here, you know. And Justin's like Brooke, it's going to be okay. And I'm like you're right, and so he goes. It was a great time. He came home safe, all the things. The kid's a really cool kid.
Speaker 2:Now that we're finding for my children and I hear the Holy Spirit say to me they've shown themselves to be trustworthy. It's time to give them more responsibility and show them that you trust them, because they have been trustworthy for 16 years. They've never given you any reason to doubt or mistrust them. So give them a little bit of freedom and just know that I'll go with them wherever they go, because you've asked that of me. Oh, makes me want to cry. So pray for them and then let the Spirit lead.
Speaker 2:Like if I would have done that three years ago, I might would have led them into a pickle if I gave them too much freedom. But I'm listening to the Lord, he's teaching me as I'm teaching them, and we let our kids know very quickly to mommy and daddy are not perfect, we don't know it all. Like if we restrict, like with that situation, like I kind of got upset with Ty cause he was even asking to go somewhere, because I wasn't emotionally ready for it and I got a little short with him and I had to go back to him and be like hey, I'm sorry, buddy, I got really protective over you for a moment. But you're right, you have shown me to be trustworthy. You can go be with your friend and he really respected that.
Speaker 1:What you're explaining to me sounds more like training.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:Then quote unquote just like raising or parenting or whatever. The Bible is very specific in the in the, in the language that it uses, says train them. Training involves very hands on active things and what you're explaining. I hope people are listening and understanding that it's not. You can't read this in a book. Yes, you can get the principles from scripture on how to raise your children, but there's not going to be a black and white answer for every situation. You're going to have to be dependent on the Holy spirit and listen to his guidance.
Speaker 1:And that's where, that's why it's called a kingdom family, because your family, your home is under the King's domain.
Speaker 2:Well, the thing with raising younger children to older children too is you discipline young children, you train older children. But a lot of parents do it different. They try to like have fun with young children and not discipline them, because the discipline leads to training. It's the same for the military.
Speaker 2:You come into hell week for four weeks and everything in you, your will is broken, your, your comforts are broken, all these things. And then they give you a gun and teach you how to use it. They train you Right. So a lot of times with parents is they just try to have fun in the beginning and they don't actually discipline their children so that the training can actually take place. So for us I feel like you know, in the beginning we weren't doing the best of it and we kind of had to like do it a little different with our older two, but with our younger two we were doing it the proper way.
Speaker 1:Welcome to hell week.
Speaker 2:No, we didn't do that. But we really stood firm with what righteousness was and the expectation in love, like we didn't have to scream and yell, we just stayed firm to the expectation, like, hey, this is what we expect of you. We're not going to budge from this place, but now, when they get into situations, we can actually train them through the situation and they really respect us because they see us live it. First of all, you don't respect somebody who just talks and doesn't live what they talk. Like I look at people all the time Like I have zero respect for you because I know what you're doing behind closed doors.
Speaker 1:Don't smoke, it's bad for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you have zero respect for your parents in that place. So they've actually seen us live it so and they and they've actually seen us discipline in them, them in love again, not all the time. There's been times, I mean, I literally was told by the Lord I could not spank my older two children anymore because I had overly spanked them before I met Jesus. So he's like don't touch them ever again. You use your words and don't spank. And then with my younger two he was like, hey, now that you know my heart and you're not in anger, you can spank them now because you're not doing it to make yourself feel better, you're actually doing it to correct them. So I have been very disciplined by the Lord in that and again, we haven't done it perfect but because we're trying the best we can and the Holy Spirit is aiding us, he redeems those mistakes.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. It actually says God redeems things Like if you lost a year with a situation, he'll redeem it tenfold. Or a financial set, whatever. He'll redeem those things. So he's redeemed our crappy parenting from the beginning and the times we miss it here and there. He redeems those moments. But our kids see consistency. So the one mistake. It's not even a memory in their mind, because they've just seen consistency for so long.
Speaker 1:That's good. I want to wrap up by maybe that hopefully I don't stump you with this question, but I think the final thing that's important. We talked about discipling our kids. We talked about kingdom families. We talked about the environment. That is helpful. We talked about specific situations and how to handle those by being led by the spirit. But our ultimate goal one day we're going to be gone right and our kids are going to be here and there. I believe there are many generations to come after us in our family line. What, how, how do we make sure that the values and what we are instilling in our kids are leave a legacy for generations to come and don't just die out with our family Like? They heard us, they listened to us, they did what we said. But how do we actually build legacy? And I want to read a scripture. This is 2 Timothy 1.5. It says Paul says I am reminded of your sincere faith, which first lived in your grandmother, lois, and in your mother, eunice, and I am persuaded, now lives in you also.
Speaker 2:Moving on the ground so good. That's like the greatest, that's the biggest desire for my children.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just thought I'm like, if you need any motivation or vision, like when I read that verse, I'm like that's all I want to hear from people that know my future generations or people that knew of us are like you know what, Like we've heard of your parents' faith and now we see that living in you.
Speaker 1:And so I guess a two-part question how do you, what is the best way to make sure that happens? And number two, lastly, we'll end with how do you, how do you, guide your children in making their faith their own and not just living off of their parents' faith?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I'm still wrecked just from that verse. I'm sorry it's not super profound, but it is powerful, I think. Honestly. I think some of this we're still learning because we have our oldest is 16, you know. So he's still got a couple of years until he really kind of has permission to take off whatever that looks like, until he really kind of has permission to take off whatever that looks like.
Speaker 2:But I think what I kept hearing in my spirit when you said that is like unless a seed falls to the ground and dies, it cannot reproduce.
Speaker 2:And so unless you truly die to self as parents and just be really humble and just give your lives to Jesus and and truly walk with him, like because truly walking with Jesus means you've died to yourself If you truly died to yourself, like it's going to reproduce in your children.
Speaker 2:Um, and I think to giving them the real Jesus, like if you haven't given them the real Jesus, it's going to fizzle out, because anything that's artificial is going to die eventually. So I think, giving them the real Jesus and making sure it's going to fizzle out, because anything that's artificial is going to die eventually. So I think, giving them the real Jesus and making sure it's the real seat of Christ that has gone into their heart, cause I think of Timothy, like, and if you read the Proverbs, there's so many instructions to parents on how to raise their children. It says don't provoke them to anger. All these different things, um, really, following those things like the scriptures on what it says about child rearing and how to handle that and how to handle and conduct yourself, it's actually going to bear fruit in their life and it's going to. They're going to have to make it their own. They're going to have to make it their own because when they get out in the real world because our kids aren't quite there yet, like we're seeing glimpses of it.
Speaker 1:We're seeing them take on their faith.
Speaker 2:We're getting into a little bit of theory. Yes, yeah, we're seeing them take on their faith. We're seeing them. Like my 13 year old. Since we moved to Texas we've been here what almost four months now. He's read the entire New Testament and neither one of us have asked him to do it. He came down the other day. He's like mom, I'm in Revelation. He's like it's a little confusing, but I've read through the whole New Testament since we've been here. I'm like oh really, I didn't know you were doing that. And so he's like interested. So he's learning more about Revelation right now because it just piqued his interest. But you know I didn't make him do that. You know I've displayed it and I've told him it's beneficial. And my children are my older three children are born again. Children Like they have the Holy Spirit. I've been there for their their um experiences with the Lord and so I do hold them accountable Like hey, are you seeking God? But I don't make them read their Bibles.
Speaker 1:Like every night at 7 PM, you have to do. It's not a task, but we do remind them the importance, Like you said before you were talking about that. Let them know why that's right, Let them understand why and the consequences of not doing that and then set the example.
Speaker 2:Well, I tell them, like, dude, if you don't read your Bible, you're going to spiritually be anorexic, you know, and the Lord can't use you in a way to fulfill his mission if the word of God is not in you. You know so, if you want this outcome and result in life, you got to put in the work. You know same with sports or whatever they do. Outcome and result in life. You got to put in the work. You know, same with sports or whatever they do. So, yeah, I think that to create kingdom children which again, we're kind of still in the process of doing it, but we're seeing it actually happen because they're we're watching them make good decisions. We're watching them how they're picking their friends right now and the options they're making and like they come home and they obey us, they honor us, they respect us. You know we're watching them do that.
Speaker 2:People always told me like, oh, wait till you have, you know, teenagers. It's the worst. And I'm like, honestly, it's been amazing, like I don't feel that way, like I've enjoyed teenage life more than I've enjoyed any other stage of life with my kids, because they're actually doing well and it's a blessing. They're blessing us by the way they're living, um, and it's encouraging to see. But, yeah, creating that legacy is, I think, first giving them the real Jesus. But, yeah, creating that legacy is, I think, first giving them the real Jesus. Second of all, have you fully died? And the seeds that, when you have gone into the ground and died, like it produces grain around you, and then I keep pointing them back to Christ, keep pointing them back to the living God, you know, because he speaks and he's real and he wants to lead your family. So I think that's kind of how it works.
Speaker 1:No, that's good. Yeah, it's discipleship. Yeah, it's discipleship, true discipleship. You're teaching them how to obey Jesus and making sure that they're not dependent on you.
Speaker 2:So just communicating that that's right. You can't live off mom and dad's faith. No, we tell that to our kids all the time.
Speaker 1:That's a funny answer, because I was deceived by that for a long time you know their experience with Christianity or whatever, and they're like well, my grandma went to church and my grandma was the strongest patriarch in our family.
Speaker 2:You know she held the glue together and I'm like. Well, everybody needs to stop depending on grandma's faith.
Speaker 1:Because you all going to hell. Grandma ain't here, no more.
Speaker 2:Grandma died 10 years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Let me read this verse here, Psalm 78, 4. We will not hide them from their children. We will tell the next generation the praiseworthy deeds of the Lord, his power and the wonders he has done. So I think that's to me scripturally like that's. All we can do is live by example, by the power of the Holy Spirit and the grace of the Lord, Point them to Jesus, Teach them, encourage them and train them to obey him, and declare his mighty works to the next generation. And then guess what? It's God that makes it grow. That's right. Who is Paul? Who is Apollos? Those that plant seeds in water. So it's your responsibility to plant seeds and water your children. It is not your responsibility to make them grow. You obey Christ the best that you can by his ability to train them up in the way that they should go, and you leave that spiritual growth in the whole the job of the Holy Spirit. You leave that up to him.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's so good.
Speaker 1:So I hope this episode was helpful for you. You've pulled some nuggets from it.
Speaker 2:You got my snotting over here and everything. I'm like I don't even touch it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like I just need to sit and marinate on that. But yeah, thank you guys so much and we look forward to hanging with you in the next episode. See you next time.